Paris Hilton

Best US President of 2008?? That is a stretch.

gbman – no more than it is for bush – at least we could watch the news with the sound down!

bailey, I would agree, but as a billionaire’s daughter, Paris Hilton seems to have few opportunities to be responsible for herself. Her behavior might actually be a desperate, though ironic effort to prove to herself that she is capable of being self-reliant. If you look at her attempts to break into show business, music and modeling, it’s obvious she wants someone to believe that she doesn’t need her family’s fortune to make it. She’s trying to establish her own identity, and probably wants to be famous for something other than just being famous. The stupid things she does may very well be her attempt to taste consequences, because she feels like it’s unfair that she herself gets all of this undeserved fortune and glory, while nobody else does. Do you find it hard to believe that even Paris Hilton may have some humility? Concern for other people? Do you believe that the Paris we see in pictures and on TV, is the same girl that lives underneath? I don’t buy it.

And true… by that logic, I do dismiss anyone’s behavior, as long as it doesn’t directly threaten the lives of those I care about, and even if it did, I’d probably get over it. You can be irresponsible all you want. It’s your life. Do with it as you please. Whether you’re paris or bailey.

well she has a bunch of people behind her – a machine if you will that has created the brand – i doubt she drove much of it herself. nevertheless, i think im with you on all this monster

O no, I don’t live on other people’s attentions like Paris Hilton. She doesn’t give me a feel that she’s living for herself. I don’t hate her. She’s too stupid for me to hate. Well, she’s spoiled alright because of her rich family and stuffs, but I think in some ways the community’s attentions on her spoiled her as well.

She doesn’t seem stupid to me, but then again, I guess I don’t reguard anyone as stupid, and I suppose it could be that “spoiled” and “not spoiled” are relative to the situation.

Hideous Monster, now I think you’re just trying to make my head explode.

If Paris is so guilt-ridden and ‘desperate’ to establish herself as her own person, why is she ignoring the easiest and most obvious route for her to shed her “famous fo being famous” personna and be judged by her own actions: philanthrophy?

Why would a desperate person leave such an obvious stone unturned?

I don’t doubt that Paris Hilton has identity issues. But if the only identities she’s willing to try on are “actress”, “model”, and “pop star”, this can hardly be characterized as a state of desperation. Moreover, she hasn’t even made especially sincere attempts at those careers she’s tried on: Where did Paris study acting? Or train as a vocalist? If she’s soley motivated by making it herself rather than cashing in on her family name, why did she accept a role on a reality show based on her wealthy “celebutante” status rather than working her way through the ranks, like an ordinary actress?

You suggest that Paris perhaps “feels like it’s unfair that she herself gets all of this undeserved fortune and glory, while nobody else does”. With no offense intended to you personally, I call “bull” on that one. Being rich and famous are not unavoidable conditions. Thus far, at 26 years of age, she’s shown zero interest in either shedding any of this unearned wealth, or in trying in a sincere way to retroactively “earn” it by being an exceptionally good person. What are Hilton’s pet charities again?

lol @ this thread.

Well, I can see why you don’t think it’s the behavior of someone who simply wants to prove herself capable of making it on her own without relying on her family fortune. That reason: you assume anybody with that motive would approach the problem exactly as you would. One of the biggest mistakes we make when judging the morality of other people, is the belief that everybody thinks the same way we do.

It could be that she’s afraid of being dependant on her family money reserve, and all of this stuff is her struggle to disolve the dependence she knows she has. She may abuse her father’s money, because she either wants him to place restrictions on how she spends it, or she thinks that living through some rough situations generated by her irresponsibility might be the only way of forcing her on an emotional level, to straighten up and fly right.

The problem with philanthrope is that it doesn’t serve the need to be independent. She could give millions of her family money away to charity, but if she doesn’t believe she even deserves to access that money, then she won’t do that. One could argue that her modeling, acting, or singing projects should be able to pay for caritable ventures, but she may feel that they need to first get to the level where they either pay for her spending habits, or she forces herself to learn new spending habits.

So, I could easily see how Hilton may not consider philanthrope the route to such an objective, and maybe she’s finding it just as hard to sever her dependence on her family name as she is on her family fortune. It’s often said that money doesn’t solve your problems, it just makes them larger, and more complicated. She may plan to use her addictive blessings against themselves: a common strategy people take when trying to change themselves for the better.

I do admit that me giving her the benefit of the doubt is partially my own tendency to assume people think the same way I do. Mine is just a theory, because I’m so trusting of people. I don’t understand how a person born with everything could possibly be greedy, but then again, when I find out people at my job may have stolen, I’m always shocked. “She couldn’t have possibly taken that money! I know her!” I seem to think, as though my familiarity with them were evidence to their defence. Sometimes it’s just as unfair to assume the best in people as it is to assume the worst.

We have more in common than you’d think then. A person probably wouldn’t guess it from this conversation, but I’m almost never the one playing bad cop. I have a tendency to trust people, too. :)

Still, I think all things being equal, your explanation assumes too much going on behind the scenes that’s not visible in Hilton’s actions. You suggest that Paris’s motive for releasing pop albums and cropping up in film cameos and such is, more or less, establishing a career of her own, standing on her own two feet, and experiencing self-actualization. I tend to think that if that were her motive, she’d be able to easily resist taking all the shortcuts her status affords her in those pursuits. I mean, if you’re climbing Mt. Everest just to prove to yourself you can do it, normally, the thought of taking a helicoper isn’t very tempting. Even if you got halfway to the top and found you couldn’t do it, you’d most likely quit, not cheat.

Realistically, I think that Paris’s lack of independence and legitimacy probably nag at her a little, especially in terms of how the world perceives her. But it doesn’t seem to bother her enough for her to work particularly hard, or sacrifice much of anything, to change that… so at what point do we call a spade a spade? Saying that she’s using her “blessings” to try and jump-start her personal independence is a bit like saying that borrowing $50 is the same as earning it. You say it’s ironic, but looking at the evidence I’m more inclined to believe she doesn’t really care about “making it herself” more than in passing. I assume she’s not, as some people suggest, an idiot. I assume that if “making it herself” were a priority, she’d be able to figure out that spending ridiculous sums to tranform herself into a marketable brand isn’t standing on her own. It’s more like laundering money, at that point.

Meanwhile, though it’s certainly possible that Paris Hilton thinks there’s some moral high ground in shunning charitable giving because she didn’t earn her fortune herself, that’s the kind of twisted logic people usually only employ when they’re trying to rationalize behavior they know is bad. Even if she somehow doesn’t ‘get’ that giving even unearned money to charity would still be a real, positive act that she herself would be personally responsible for (and that seems an easy idea to understand), her priorities still suck. She thinks her personal journey of self-actualization via superstardom is so much more important than doing concrete good for other people in the world? That’s not indicative of the humility and concern for other people you presume she has. That’s self-centeredness by any other name.

For someone who wields so much power (read as: money), I consider that a pretty basic moral failing.

... a word in edgewise…

Here, here. MastaKink, you were saying…

I like your metaphore about taking a helecopter to climb Mt. Everest. But that’s just the POV of someone who wasn’t raised with the same temptations that Paris Hilton was. I think most Americans do the same thing Paris is attempting in their own way. How many Americans do you know who actually go through college with their own hard-earned money? We don’t. We use our parents’ money, scholarships, tax-payer grants, or we barrow. In other words, we take the short cut. And what goals do we Americans have? Usually the goal is hordes of money, so we can buy a big house, a nice boat, a sports car, or any number of other material posessions that do nothing to serve our fellow man.

We believe ourselves to be very generous, provided all of our personal wants and needs have arrived. Usually we go deep into debt to pay for these things, and then say to ourselves “I can’t afford to help others, because I have all of these debts!” We use our welfare cards to buy food, and our own money to buy our beer, cigarettes, sports cars, and club entry.

These people are the very people who judge Paris Hilton, who really is merely a super-rich version of the same thing they are. Just look at your own personal judgements of her. She’s a mooch for using her family fortune, but the recipiants of her charitable donations would not be? How many of your opportunities do you throw away for the AIDS patients, or the starving children of Ethiopia? Have your parents ever loaned you any money? Did you just forward it to the Feed the Children foundation, or did you use it to serve your own needs? Why would you expect Paris to be any different than anybody else?

Why should I treat her differently? Are you serious?

I feel I’m well within my rights to expect more of a person who is capable of giving more. I will acknowledge that Amercian values can be pretty skewed at times. But obviously, a guy who’s making eight bucks an hour is sacrificing a lot more if he donates $50 to charity than if a billionare heiress donates the same sum. I could draw you a graph if you really need me to. Miss Hilton has the capacity to do an outragously huge amount of good without ever coming close to the point where her lifestyle would be affected. Remind me again of the difference between making five million dollars a year and six in terms of lifestyle?

Whether or not I’ve borrowed money from anyone in my life is irrelevant. I’m not attacking Paris for having inherited money; I merely responded to that point because you brought it up. There’s nothing wrong with having advantages inherently. It’s just inherently loathsome to have everything in the world, and not even consider giving back the things you can’t even use.

Get a room

Maybe to you it’s loathsome. I find it quite normal. I know $50 means less to a millionaire than to a guy who makes 20 grand a year, but when you’re talking percentages, Paris probably gives away about as much of her personal income as the average American nobody. Not only that, but the money she spends is probably contributing in a large part to their income. I don’t understand what motivates you to chastise somebody else for what they’re not doing, when you know as well as I do that it’s their right to do or not do what ever they please with what they have, provided they obey the laws. In her mind, her family fortune is probably her financial safety net. How often do you go digging into your savings to contribute to Jerry’s Kids?

The truth is that there is nothing important that Paris has that most people don’t have. I don’t believe in “haves” and “have-nots.” I believe in haves and dead children. If you’re not the festering corpse of a child, then count your blessings, because sister, you’re a have. To survive to adulthood, you have to have a lot of good fortune that you wouldn’t be blessed with in certain different times or places.

There are people in this world who believe you or I might as well be Paris Hilton, simply because of where we were born. And who knows? They may be debating at this very moment about whether you and I are greedy, self-centered, and heartless, because we would rather spend time talking on the internet than donate to the needy.

That is how I view the world. I take an enormous step back, and look at the larger picture from a distance. From this perspective, Paris, her wealth and her fame are but tiny little specks on the world that mean very little. Pain and pleasure are only temporary experiences, that are inevitable in every life. Paris suffers, too. She suffers in a different way, but she suffers. I used to deliver pizzas for a living. I didn’t make a lot of money, but I was happy. I imagine that the people you think need a Hilton helping hand are either comfortable and content with their present situation, or they would be unhappy no matter what they had.

Material posessions are not a source for happiness. So it makes no sense to judge someone for keeping them.

HM, remind me the next time you’re very, very sick to grab the bottle of antibiotics you just picked up at the local pharmacy and throw them away. You shouldn’t mind—material possessions never bring happiness, right? ;)

To my mind, “money can’t buy happiness” is a falsehood repeated by the citizens of the wealthiest nations of the world, who are hardly in a position to comment. A more accurate description might be to say that after basic needs are met, the probability of increased wealth coorelating to significantly increased happiness goes down. I wasn’t kidding when I said you could graph this stuff. The short form is if that you buy meal for a person who’s hungry, in terms of happiness, your buck goes a hell of a lot further than if you put it towards a $5000 handbag. Obviously, this is a better argument for charity than against it.

Returning to the subject of Paris, as far as I can tell, her documented history of charitable giving to date is zero. I see why you’d assume she was doing at least some charity, as this is the norm for people of her class. But from my (admittedly limited) research on the matter, she sees to be something of an anomoly; despite all the attention the media lavishes on her every time she’s seen in public, I can’t find a single news story documenting an instance of her donating anything to anyone.

Until more evidence is on the table, I question whether she gives as much, percentage-wise, as “the average American nobody”. I also forgive the average American nobody a bit more readily, because, even if you reduce it percentages, the working classes still work harder to earn the same amount of money as the investing class, to which Paris belongs. They also sacrifice more to give that money up, due to the concept of diminishing returns of happiness on larger amounts of wealth.

Lastly, to your remark about not understanding what motivates me “to chastise somebody else for what they’re not doing, when… it’s their right to do or not do what ever they please with what they have, provided they obey the laws”: you’re apparently talking about legal rights. In my personal observaton, it’s entirely possible for a person to not break the law and still be a jerk. What does the law have to do with it?

Okay, we obviously have no way of knowing if or how Paris Hilton has ever contributed, financially to any charitable cause. All you can seem to say is that if she has, it’s one thing she hasn’t showcased about herself. So, let’s state our opinions and just leave the charity subject at that. My opinion is that what a person doesn’t do with what they have is none of my business, and them taking advantage of their freedom to flaunt it is worth respecting. I’m too concerned about what I’m doing with my own money to worry about what the Hilton family does with theirs. It may not be what I myself would do with it, but that doesn’t make me the ultimate judge of their moral standing. I like to let karma be the judge. You judge her for it as you like, but in this matter, I don’t think either one of us is wise enough to know what’s best for Paris.

Personally, I think it goes beyond legal rights. I think legal rights are best when they respect property rights. From your perspective, Paris Hilton may be a bitch, and a snob, but from my perspective, Paris Hilton hasn’t been preaching her own standards of morality to me for the past week or so.

Say what you will about this girl you’ve never met, but it is my opinion that if the general public at large is so manipulable to base their actions, opinions and lifestyles on the influence of some rich chick on TV, then Paris Hilton, her wealth, and her fame are the least of our problems.

Also, your opening antibiotic analogy doesn’t quite apply. Hilton isn’t taking things from people, she’s simply not buying things for them. Surely you don’t ignore that distinction..

I could offer a response, but apparently I’ve been “preaching my own stardard of morality to you for the last week or so” which you take issue with? I apologise for having bothered you, if I did..?  I thought we were having a friendly discussion.

Apology accepted.

Awwwww… Group hug…

The idea of Jack Nicholson saying that, after having chopped through a bathroom door with an axe, adds a much nicer touch to The Shining.

Well, the participation of a preacher doesn’t disqualify it as a discussion, but I think an apology sufficiently qualifies as a concession.

Feel free to put a concession in my mouth, as it is the one way you’re going to get one. From where I sit, the conceding party is the one that had to resort to calling names to get themselves out of the discussion. XD

But seriously. I’m bowing out now, because I didn’t actually intend for this to get unpleasant. Some people do actually enjoy discussing political and philosophical things as a kind of a sport; others don’t. Which is fine. I simply assumed you were enjoying because you were participating. It hope it’s all good.

Oh, I enjoyed it, alright. Reminded me of my earlier days, debating religion in chat rooms and message boards in high school… making fun of tragedies on news forums… collecting enemies… Arguholism is my worst vice.

i cannot understand y so many guys think shes hot!  i mean ugh  shes not all that

Because she's skinny. I like skinny chicks.

yah - I thought everyone was bored of talking about Paris 

I like larger girls ... not too large (like my gf)  but shapely is good ... womanly not little boy like - Paris is sexy probaly because she takes her clothes of and is stupid and dirty and rich - unfortunately men like those things - skinny is obviously popular with many too.    

I've never been turned on by dirty or rich, but I like skinny. Reminds me of my skeletal self.

not rich or dirty but you do like stupid and takes clothes off. 

You are a bit to deep for me. You think too much. . . I like to have a quiet moment or two on my own to experience deep thought or even silent meditation trying to think of nothing and free my mind too - but its best to not think too much beyond self indulgence - just like Paris!!!!!!!   Safe and easy.   

I like youthful girls with innocence and energy but I am also attracted to filthy ho's - dont know why!

And why would anyone like skeletons?   Girls often worry too much about being as skinny as possible while most of the men are looking at shakera shaking her ass.

I like petite. Not a fan of dumb, but I don't think Paris is dumb. At least not any dumber than everybody else. She just has vices. Who doesn't have those? Not a boob man, and not a butt man. Those types of things attract too much attention…  They distract the mind from the mind, you see.

No – i have agreed before with you about her not being dumb – but she uses that image and thats what counts. .  . my best bit of a woman is her stomach actually – dont know why but a stomach with a pretty bellybutton and along with an arched back on a woman who isnt too skinny or fat is very sexy – no rings or tattos or stretch marks.   

"No tattoos" is hard to find right now. It's so rare that it would no doubt catch my attention if I found one. I like clean skin as well. I don't see why guys like tattoos. But then again, I don't like smokers or drinkers, either, so I guess my standards are pretty narrow.

I hate smoky breath - clothes smell for days after a smoker has been near - My GFs mom smokes - and if i give her a lift somewhere my car smells for weeks.  I dont mind if a girl drinks a little - i guess it depends on how they react to drink.   Doesnt sounds like too narrow to me - As for tattoos, I cant help thinking of what they will look like in 30 years time.

Im amazed that Paris hasnt got tattoos and belly piecings etc.   

Are we one three pages yet????    Nearly...

The smell doesn't irritate me much.  I have a terrible sense of smell. But I can tell you this: I'm so anti-smoking that I made my own mother sick when she tried to smoke while I was in the womb.  And she had it coming as far as I'm concerned. She never got sick with my brother. 

Are you sure that wasnt when you were born and she looked at you .. hahaha oh the hillariousness

She was proud, because I looked like Winston Churchill.

Did you smoke a Cigar too?

NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lol

Burn in hell, paris.. you are the worst person ever! listen to my advise: STAY IN JAIL!

Harsh

I can't imagine what it must be like to hate somebody as much as mcr-5 hates Paris Hilton.

i can imagine – but dont wanna go there

 I bet she'll be back to her old ways in a few months.

 Hideous Monster, what the hell are you trying to say?

I'm sorry, but as hard as I try, I can't think of a way to get any more clear or blunt than that.

As much as I din't want to, I really liked some songs from her CD. I got it for my birthday, lol.

well, it would be hard not to like the songs.  as paris says herself, "I have a beautiful voice."