Mathematics

got to love math.

i wish i read this topic from of the start. to lazy to read it all back :p

I promise you that it's good, boomstam…

Oh I miss math! Miss "i"... calculus… but specially trigonometry… yep, those were the days!

i just realized the standard scientific calculator doesnt have the mod function.

i wonder why is that?

too hard to program? 

Sorry, Ramong? Do you mean the modular function?

Strange, the modulo is not complicated:
x mod n = x - n * trunc(x/n)
where trunc is just the integer part of (x/n). But scientific calculators generally suck with integer arithmetics. With the above formula you can split it in two steps and use wetware to determine the truncation.

Finrod - is it modular or modulo? i only know it as mod. the function where you take the remainder of a division as an answer.

belaqua - interesting formula. but we dont have trunc function in calculator. rite?

anyway, i come to this problem while doing cryptography - rsa, diffie-hellman public key cyrptography algorithms. try answering 7 mod 237 ^ 1023 without spraining your medula oblongata.

good news, the calculator in our computer can do it. bad news, the calculator we carry around cant. 

Oh, I see your point. Yes, if you're dealing with modulo at a cryptographic level, the computing involved is pretty formidable, as far as I know. I'll yield the floor to bel on this one.

Ramong: trunc means simply to cut off the non-integer part, e.g.: trunc(3.98)=3 trunc(7.02)=7. So you can take the formula, compute x/n on even the simplest calculator, use your brain to determine and store the intermediate result, then compute the rest of the formula on the calculator.

The mod function btw is called modulo, computing with it is called modular (or: modulo) arithmetic, and in "x mod n" the "n" is called the modulus. The modulo has some interesting features and in cryptography the mathematics involved is pretty sophisticated.

belacqua : exactly what i did but still, the calculation is complex. anyway bel, what do you know about cryptography? what is it that you do actually?,  seeing you explaining mathematics like finrod :)

finrod: oh yeah, its formidable. 

This book by Simon Singh is pretty thorough. It explains the public/private key encryption quite well.

Entschuldigung, belacqua, I didn't mean to interrupt you! 

Yes, Singh is really good at explaining mathematics on an accessible level. His book on Fermat's Last Theorem is also a fascinating read. The real mathematics of cryptography is indeed complex, Ramong. And application level calculations need to be run on an computer, not a pocket calculator. You have to use advanced algorithms there, facilitating some of the features that for example the modulo has. But to understand what's going on, pencil and paper are always the best when it comes to math. IMHO.

There is a free introduction to the mathematics involved online (that needs some background in probability, number theory, computational theory and such). You might want to take a look on the reading list that Wikipedia provides, to find a book that suits your needs. I'm a bit disconnected from these issues now, thus can't recommend a specific book on applied crypto.

I'm looking at my copy of Fermat's.. as I type this, bel, and you're dead right in your summation of it. I used to enjoy Martin Gardner's Mathematical Puzzles and Diversions ond other works when I was younger, too.

I get out a lot more these days.

And you're also dead right about pencil and paper. The level of mathematical understanding of UK children - or rather lack of it -  is generally very poor because they don't want to stoop to actually having to write things down. In my experience, anyway.

By the way, bel - what value in steradians can be assigned to a 'square degree' of the sky? I've been approaching it two ways and get contradictory answers. I've never had to solve problems involving solid angles before! 

Pencil and paper is the way to go for mathematics! At university we used to get big piles of waste 16 inch wide fanfold paper (which the operation of the local particle accelerator produced in hundredweights per day). They were perfect to sketch out proofs.

A steradian BTW is (180/pi)^2 square degrees, as a radian is 180/pi degrees.

Fanfold paper - my, that takes me back...

Do you know, I was clearing out a wardrobe recently and found a stash of the stuff with my university aromatic-ring Kekulé calculations on it. Reams of the damn stuff. Made great scrap paper, as you say.

Thanks for that info. 

i hate it..along with physics,chemitry…thinking about it, it makes my head spin!

Well, that was worth reading…

Useful tool!!!

Well… that was worth reading, too.

i love maths…Really…

I've been diagnosed with a math disability, I don't understand why I have to suck at it and my father and sisters are really good at it! One of my sisters teachs it!

Hate it! Honestly, I think I might prefer to be shot rather have to take another math test…

I agree like my brain just can't take it

I freaked out while tryin to do me homework the other night haha seriously like it just can't be done 

Numbers makes the world go 'round . Being able to 'crunch' them helps a lot.

`I propose we leave math to the machines and go play outside`Calvin & Hobbes

this is my favourite lesson at school! only this lesson can make me not to get bore

numbers intimidate the hell out of me and leaves my brain in a heap of mess!

i love maths ,,,,stdy maths,,,

it's the best part of my life,,,,, 

i hate math but i understand it, which is a scary thing lol

i don't like it = ( but i should study to pass..all i need is patience and determination…

math is to be learnt not studied

1 + 1=2,5