Existentialism

Who said that?

Kierkegaard.

I love me some Søren. His writing style is fabulous - and he's often quite funny, for a philosopher!

He's interesting, but his 'cure' for existential angst is rather annoying.

I like that very much... i think i will do some research on this Kierkegaard guy.

I would advise Sartre if you don't want a bunch of Christian mumbo jumbo.

Just so you know Vano, I'm studying this agian in my class, so maybe this teacher will explain better ;P

Why leave it to the teacher to decide what you get out of it?

Because on my list of things to learn, this isn't at the top. And, the teacher won't decide what I get out of it, she'll decide what I get out of the class. It doesn't hurt to have another source.

sweet quote :)

philosophy is so confusing, yet so interesting!

ohh..  i heard sartre was just a retarded french critic...

is dosteovsky good?

i'm not sure what i'm looking for

i got a buch of books by dosteovsky and kiergaard and sartre but they were boring...

so i returned them to the library :P

so what exactly are the beliefs of existentialists?

Existentialism is very broad. It's a philosophy that starts with the individual rather than speaking dirsectly to humans in general or the outside universe. It has alot to do with responsibility. Basically, your life is absolutely in your hands, you have infinite possibilities and to blame anyone for your situation is a joke, although there are obviously outside circumstances that will come into play.

I don't believe Kierkegaard wrote anything but essays. He was a Christian Existentialist which I find to be a contradiction. In a universe with a God, the individual doesn't have full control, and I'm simply not satisfied with such an abrupt end to the trail. Satre has a few novels and a ton of Essays. You'll probably get bored with the essays. Dostoyevsky wrote about five novels and quite a few short stories. His work is very dense. Expect to pay at least a fortnight to one of his novels.

Try Camus. The Stranger is a nice, easy read, as is most of his work. You'll enjoy the story and understand Existentialism (as well as the absurd) a little better. His novels are usually around 200 pages. I read The Stranger in a few hours. It's a great book. Camus and Sartre were both Atheist Existentialists. In their cases, it really did come down to the individual. Well, the individual and the absurd.

oh,  i don't know then... i'm orthodox-christian and i definetly believe in god.

maybe extistentialism isn't for me?

Depends on your interpretation of the world. It definetly doesn't exclude you.

haha, you're so scientific!

(as in you use big words)

so, what is your interpretation of the world?

Nothing is ever complete. There is no all purpose spray that answers all questions. Chaos provides meaning and silences big questions for a time. There is no answer. Everything just is. Somehow, I'm going to have to learn to live with all of that. However, according to that formula, change of it too is inevitable.

so you think that there is no meaning of life?

I wish my answer to that was no. I suppose you can create your own meaning. That is a part of Existentialism. If you occupy yourself with things, you create goals and your meaning intertwines with those goals. As far as a meaning to the universe, no. Our frame of consciousness causes us to ask questions which, in the grand scheme of things, are most likely just full of false hope.

hmmm..

so you think that there is no reason that people are on this planet, we just are?

No I think the evolution of this planet has done a very fine job of illustrating how we got here. That's simple information you can pick up virtually anywhere.

do you think we evolved from monkeys?

if so, how did the monkeys get here?

They evolved from something else, all leading back to the ever-referenced primordial ooze that was full of the possibility of life, and just needed something to start it.  (Ex/ lightning, although no one is really sure.)  After this, mitotic cell division is just a step away, creating almost infinite possibilities for life forms.

I'm almost certainly wrong, although that is my understanding.  Anyone care to correct me?

That's not a challenge, but a request.  :)

but there must have been something that put us all here

even if you believe in evolution, the monkeys had to evolve from something too

what was the first thing here, and how did it get there?

That's what she was telling you.

oh.

haha, i guess i misunderstood that...

lol, i'm not so good with words :P

so, what do you think it was that put us here?

Apparently my science needs brushed up on. You can find all of these answers through Google. It was something like on pre-historic Earth, carbon 1 plants started to emerge, they helped mold our atmosphere through the release of carbon dioxide, then somehow protein and something got thrown together and the first organism appeared and you can research the theory of evolution if you want to know more. We all are derived from the same microbe or whatever.

Yes, that's what I think put us here because that seems most logical. If you are getting at "everything has to come from nothing", then I ask, where did you God come from? If God is infinite, then why can't the universe be infinite? All these questions you ask can be found anywhere online.

i believe that God exists, but i don't know how he got here.

do you think that everything came about through science?

what are your beliefs about where people go after death?

Science is an attempt to explain the makeup of everything. We are not here because of science, but science can help explain why we're here.

Why do you believe in God?

I believe after Death we decompose if we aren't turned to ash. I want to be turned to ash.

What's your interest in Existentialism derived from?

the reason that i believe in God is because i do not believe that we just 'became'

something HAD to have put us here, and i believe that it was God. i don't know how to explain, but i just believe in Him.

what got me interested in existentialism is i was watching the movie I heart huckabees, and i thought it was amazing! i decided to go on wikipedia to learn more about existentialism, but i didn't quite understand. i also click on links and learned about other philosophical ideas. so then i came here and decided to ask some people their opinions.

:D

That's what they've been trying to tell you. We didn't just "become." There are even a lot of Christians that believe in evolution, they just think it was guided by God. Or so I've been told by Christians.

oh..

:D

i believe in God and the stories in the Bible.. so yeah.. :)

I Heart Huckabees was much more than just Existentialism. The Existentialism was in the "Individual is important" parts. It was scattered optimism mixed with Buddhism, quantum theory and personal philosophies.

You should try lighter reads with summaries and unknown authors. I think the parts you're interested in could be found in the book The Secret.

So, you believe that the world was created in 7 days, Adam and Eve, and all of that?

oh, i guess now i don't really believe in a lot of things about existentialism

about the bible thing, i believe what it says. im not very religious to be honest (i don't go to church often enough), but that is what i believe :)

Why?

what do you mean why?

why i believe in God or why i do not believe in existentialism?

Why do you believe in any of it?

i still don't really understand the question but i guess i will tell you why i believe in God.

i believe in God because to me the only logical solution as to why the world was created is that there was a higher power. i do not think that we are here because of science or evolution, or other things like that. i am an orthodox-christian mainly because my parents taught me that way, but also because that is what i believe.

Oh.

yeah, did that answer your question?

Well, you answered my question, so I suppose that would mean you answered my question.

haha, ok

God could be one explanation of why it all came to be, but at the same time it could be seen to be as a cop out? If any of you know anything about M-theory or superstring theory (and I have only brushed upon the most peripheral details), this could make the discussion far more interesting. I advise you to look at the articles on the BBC website if you are at all interested.

You can continue to dissect existence and bring it back level after level, moving further and further backwards, until eventually there will always be the uexplainable. Aristotle called this the 'Prime Mover'; something that created this motion of existence, without being moved in itself. I do see this as a cop-out.

I think that the one area where God could be said to exist is in the fabric of the rules of mathmatics. Maths is the single simplest area. You can't regress past maths. So if there has to be an ultimate outsider that has led to the creation of the universe, maybe the only thing it would be necessary to create is the rules of maths. (An obvious argument here is to say "Yes... and a whole lot of energy/matter", well read up on superstring theory and maybe things will become clearer). Blimey we've gone from existentialism to creationism. wonderful.

I should mention that I am a decided atheist but that I believe religion to be far from obsolete.

I bring Creationism up only to decide Vesnaa's perspective. One living in a Godless universe is very different from one living in a universe with a God. The rest of the conversation came about through answering the questions she presented back to us. I have no interest in a God. Isn't the whole point of Existentialism that you find and create your own meaning? Once again, maybe not from the perspective of Kierkegaard, but as I said before his place in the catagory of Existentialism is questionable. Yes, so much as talking about a God or Evolution in the Existential forum is a major contradiction. Instead of moving forward as an individual, we move back as a universe.

Maths are useful in the human arena, however I feel they have no place in such a conversation. Like time, like words, math was created by humans, therefore it cannot be trusted, especially in the full spectrum of the universe. I toss the thoughts of those great philosophers talking of a love for numbers, since they are the only things in the universe that do not change. Numbers are machines.

Belief in God in the beginning might have been a cop out. The writers' so to speak. The man in society has an overwhelming urge, a desire to seek something outside the little ant colony in which everything has the function for survival and to keep the whole buzzing along in an orderly fashion. To brand a man higher up who will present the Truth once we complete our first task is an easy way out. However, now we have religion weaved into the very fabric of our society. God almost becomes more than a belief, much like your numbers, no? In literature, in music, on billboards, we see God's face. Don't you think now, in many cases, it can go quite beyond a simple cop out?

That's a good point. I like the idea of not being able to trust maths, as a human idea (although again this seems to also contradict existentialism to a point). It reminds me of Plato.

And yes, I do agree with you that in the context of society, God is far more than a simple cop-out, that's why I had to mention that I think that religion is far from obsolete. But in the context of answering difficult scientific, ethical and philosophical questions with 'the almighty', I think that while a lot of people would love to believe that this can end discussion, there will always be people who (regardless of whether answers will actually result in progress) will try to answer these questions in other ways that don't require a God.

The difference that I see between existentialism and theology is that with existentialism, your purpose isnt as a piece of the puzzle that is creation, you can exist as your own island of existence and take that existence in any way you will. I don't quite see how (if you look at it like this) it makes existentialism contradictory to religion.

Rewind. Back. Back when she was a little child, focusing the glare of her father's flashlight on unsuspecting shadows. On these days she complained of a knotted stomach, and wasn't content with staying at home. Her parents stood nearby watching, concerned.

Evaluation after evaluation, she was always fine, her behavior, though a bit strange seemed entirely normal. Now...

“Fuck, fuck, fuck!” she screamed. Tears ran down her cheeks. She kicked a hole in the side of the comforter. “I have terrible balance! Rolling, rolling, rolling down this vertical faced cliff into an abyss no light can unveil. Is this a cover-up? My personal life is nowhere to be found. What am I searching for? Stepping further into a non-existent realm... like anything will cure this unbelievable itch! And this facade! Is it? How can one who sees the universe stripped bare possibly carry out these common emotions put on by the common man? Why did I enter into this? Why do I continue to dig around? What is a fucking intellectual?! A person dissatisfied with questions... such beautiful questions. Then the answers sink down past the gates of hell, and suddenly the common man is transformed into a hideous, egotistical beast who fucks any questions that move (unnerved by innocence) all while using a bitter, patronizing tone.”

No one knocked on her door that evening. That was the evening she ripped in half an insignificant book. That was the evening she screamed her thoughts, paper not enough. That was the evening she bled and bled and bled, then ate and ate and ate.

“Curse the walls and the grass and the sea. I'm spoiled raw meat.”

She stuck her fingers down her throat to force open the knot.

“The exotic fish in the tank carry streams of shit. The actress has red bumps. The cereal has little holes and I want to crawl inside. I want to douse myself in red bumps and shit. I want everyone to douse themselves in red bumps and shit until it becomes beautiful. Then I want to cum for a lifetime, climax building until death blackens eternity.”

They called her “smart” and “attractive” and “the most amazing person I've ever met in my life”. They bid on her and she was traded for 64 kopecks and the fattest sow. She talked to herself in the mirror with the flashlight until all the black receded. Now it was in her stomach.

She pointed the flashlight down her throat. The mirror wasn't bold enough.

“God is bought and sold, while in creeps black despite my heightened awareness, down, down, down my throat.”

It was a winter's night. No one came to her door. All clocks were hidden. Was it 5:30 or 1?

She closed her eyes, sure not to fall asleep.

After an hour, she wrote down on the notepad, “Check under sofa”, shut the world off and slipped into Heaven.